Now & Then Podcast | Henri Nouwen on Hope, Belovedness & Prayer
Henri Nouwen, 1995
Original Release Date: July 14, 2019
These three episodes are excerpts taken from an interview done in 1995 with Brian Stiller, former host of Cross Currents. Released in 2019 on Now & Then. Themes Include: Hope, Belovedness, Prayer & Solitude
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Karen Pascal: Hello, I'm Karen Pascal. I'm the director of the Henri Nouwen Society. Welcome to a new episode of Henri Nouwen: Now and Then. Because we're new to the world of podcasts, taking time to give us a review or a thumbs-up will mean a great deal to us and will help us reach more people. Our goal is to allow the wisdom, honesty, and encouragement found in the life and writings of Henri Nouwen to speak to a world hungry for meaning. Now, let me take a moment to introduce you to today's podcast. You're in for a treat today. I found this wonderful interview that Brian Stiller did with Henri Nouwen in 1995, and Henri explains the mystery of hope. I think you'll enjoy this.
Henri Nouwen: Hope has something to do with a promise. There can be no hope without a promise. And we are invited to live with the promise that says, “I will fulfill the deepest needs of your heart.” That's what God is saying: “I have loved you. I've given you a heart, a restless heart, but a heart that is restless so that I can give you rest, so that I can give you all you need. To live with hope is to live with a promise. And what I want to say is that you can only hope if that what you're hoping for has already touched you. That what you're hoping for, you already know a little bit. I always desire, in a way, that of which I know something, you know? And so, the mystery of hope is that, in a way, you are aware that something needs to be fulfilled. But what needs to be fulfilled somewhere already has touched you. Somewhere, the love that you want to come to fulfillment is already part of you. That's why I feel that if you live with hope, you are able to live very much in the present, because you can nurture the footprints of God in your heart, in your life. You have already a sense of what's to come. And the whole spiritual life is saying, God is right with us, now, so that we can wait for his coming. And the waiting is, we’re waiting with hope. But because we wait with hope, we know that what we are waiting for is already at work in us, and we have to nurture them.
Now, it's interesting that we live in a world where people don't know much about hope. They know about wishes. You know, the whole Christmas period is full of wishes: “I wish a gift. I wish this. I want that.” It's very concrete. It's: “I want a toy. I want a car. I want a new house. I want a new job. I want…” – all these very specifics. That's wishing: “I wish this, that, such, so.” And hope is precisely that you say, “I don't know how God is going to fulfill his promises, but I know he will. And therefore, I can live in the present with the knowledge of God being with me, hoping and trusting that the deepest desires of my being will be fulfilled. It makes the, keeps the future very open. You know, it's not a controlling way of living. It's not saying, you know, “I want to have a hold on my future. I want to be sure that this is going to happen or that's going to happen. I want to be sure that all these things are in place when I get there.” I mean, that's an anxious, controlling, nervous ego of me that I want to be reassured that I have enough to survive.
Karen Pascal: I hope you got as much out of this as I did. It was so special to hear Henri, on the theme of hope. We're invited to live with the promise God gives, that he will fulfill the deepest desires of our hearts. If you enjoyed today's podcast, we'd be so grateful if you take time to give it a stellar review, or a thumbs-up, or even share it with your friends and family. As well, you'll find links in the show notes for our website and any content, resources or books discussed in this episode. There's even a link to books to get you started, in case you're new to the writings of Henri Nouwen. Thank you for listening. Until the next time.
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Karen Pascal: Hello, I'm Karen Pascal. I'm the director of the Henri Nouwen Society. Welcome to a new episode of Henri Nouwen: Now and Then. Because we're new to the world of podcasts, taking time to give us a review or a thumbs-up will mean a great deal to us and will help us reach more people. Our goal is to allow the wisdom, honesty, and encouragement found in the life and writings of Henri Nouwen to speak to a world hungry for meaning. Now, let me take a moment to introduce you to today's podcast. You're in for such a treat today. In 1995, we interviewed Henri Nouwen in his living room at L’Arche Daybreak in Richmond Hill, Ontario. That conversation with Henri has remained pivotal in my life. He speaks about conversion. For Henri, conversion meant claiming the truth of yourself. Listen into this wonderful conversation with Henri Nouwen.
Henri Nouwen: Conversion. Conversion is, first of all, it’s an ongoing thing. It doesn't happen once. To convert is a lifelong process. Conversion is claiming again and again and again, the truth of myself. And what is the truth of myself? That I am God's beloved child. Long before I was born, and my father and my mother and my teachers and my church got involved, and I will be God's beloved child long after I've died. I go from God's intimate embrace until God's intimate embrace. God says, “I've loved you with an everlasting love. I've loved you before you were born. I have knitted you together in your mother’s womb. I have molded you in the depths of the world. I was there long before any human being was there. And I loved you and loved you and I have written your name in my hands. And you're safe in the palm of my hand. Long before you were born. And I’m sending you into this world for a little time: 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 years. That's just a little bit, so that you have a chance to say, ‘I love you, too.’”
See, that's what life is about. Life is simply saying “yes” to God's saying, “I love you.” And you say, “Yes, I want to say yes to that. I want to say yes.” And all the struggles and the pain and the anguish and the losses that take place in our lives, are endless opportunities to claim God's love. I lose my mother and I am in deep grief, but can I live that grief as a way to say “yes” to my belovedness, before I was born.
You know, I lose a job. Can I somewhere live it, not to become bitter or angry or resentful or jealous, but can I somewhere claim that even though I lost my job, even though I’m not relevant, even though people praise me, even if I'm not a big shot. That still, I'm the beloved child of God. I can start living from that place. See, that's the spiritual life – to live from the place of your spiritual truth. And that's what Jesus heard in the Jordan: “And when he came out of the water, a voice came and that said, ‘You are my beloved son. On you my favor rests.’” And Jesus lived from that place. And people loved him and people hated him. And people said, “Hosanna” and people said, “Crucify.” All that's what happened. But Jesus says, “I remain the beloved son of God. And everybody will leave me, but my Father will never leave me alone.” And it's from that place. And he calls us to believe that you and I are as beloved and as important to God as Jesus. And we shouldn’t say, “Well, Jesus was the son of God and we are not.” I mean, Jesus says, “Just as the Father loved me, so he loves you.” He calls you the beloved. You are becoming, I'm calling you to claim the truth of your divine childhood, that you are a child of God. Your divine childhood.
Karen Pascal: Thank you for listening. I hope that what Henri shared about life is saying “yes” to God's love will remain with you throughout this day. He encourages us to live from a place of spiritual truth, that you are a beloved child of God. If you enjoyed today's podcast, we'd be so grateful if you'd take time to give it a stellar review or a thumbs-up, or even share it with your friends and family. As well, you'll find links in the show notes for our website and any content resources or books discussed in this episode. There's even a link to books to get you started, in case you're new to the writings of Henri Nouwen. Thanks for listening. Until next time.
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Karen Pascal: Hello, I'm Karen Pascal. I'm the director of the Henri Nouwen Society. Welcome to a new episode of Henri Nouwen: Now and Then. Because we're new to the world of podcasts, taking time to give us a review or a thumbs-up will mean a great deal to us and will help us reach more people. Our goal is to allow the wisdom, honesty, and encouragement found in the life and writings of Henri Nouwen to speak to a world hungry for meaning. Now, let me take a moment to introduce you to today's podcast. You are in for something special – a deep and honest conversation with Henri Nouwen. In 1995, Brian Stiller, host of the TV series. Crosscurrents, interviewed Henri Nouwen in his living room at L’Arche Daybreak in Richmond Hill, Ontario. Brian asked Henri, “What is prayer?” Listen to this wonderful conversation between these two men.
Henri Nouwen: Prayer, for me, means trustful listening. Listening. Listening to the voice who calls me the beloved, listening to the truths of myself that God announces to me. Now, and therefore, solitude is very, very important. I have to be . . . “solitude” comes from the word solus. That means “alone” – to be alone with God. And to let God tell me who I am. Let me give you a very simple example. When I pray, you know, I simply go into a quiet place sometimes for half an hour every morning, mostly. And I take a sentence like, “The Lord is my shepherd. There is nothing I shall want.” Okay? “The Lord is my shepherd. There is nothing I shall want.” Well, I want all sorts of things. I want all of it. I want this. I want that. I want such, I want so. My whole life is full of wants, and restlessness, and anxiety.
But the truth of myself, in real, spiritual terms, is that there is nothing I shall want, that God will give me everything I really need. And so, when I enter into solitude, I'm listening to the voice of truth that says, “There's nothing you shall want. I am your shepherd. I'll care for you. I will guide you.” And I have to claim that. And it's very, very difficult to claim it, because as soon as I am in solitude, I realize that my head is like a banana tree full of monkeys jumping here and there. I should do this. I should go here. I should write a letter to my mom. I shouldn't forget that. I have this appointment. At five o'clock he's coming. Then I have lunch with him. And later on, this and dah, dah, dah. And all these things, buh, buh, buh, going crazy in my mind about them, and I’d better stop this solitude and get going. So at least I don't have to be so nervous.
But that shows that our head is a garbage can, a garbage can of stuff and anxieties and preoccupations. And so, the discipline of solitude is to gradually and very gently, actually, to say, “Oh, yes, I have to write this letter. Oh yes, I have to go there. Oh yes, I have to do that.” But the truth is the Lord is my shepherd and there's nothing I shall want. I'm still mad at this person. And I want to tell them back. And I will say, “Why did he say this to me? I should have said that.” Oh yes, that's true. But the Lord is my shepherd. I want to go back to the truth. And the interesting thing is that when I pray that way, gradually the truth descends from my mind into my heart. That's prayer, to let the truth of my belovedness not be an idea that I am sort of convinced of, because prayer is not ideas. Prayer is to let the word become flesh in me.
And that in a way, the words, “The Lord is my shepherd. There is nothing I shall want,” they become flesh in me. And I experience the shepherding presence of God in the center of my being. In a way, these words enter into the inner sanctuary of my life. And it's like a little room in me or a little space in which I hold that precious truth. And the amazing thing is, in your solitude and your being alone with God, you have let the words become flesh. And in a way, the words are written on the wall of your inner room. Then during the day, when you talk to people and be with people, somehow, you can be with them from that place. You can, in a way, interiorly say, “You’re welcome.”
Karen Pascal: Thank you for listening. Like Henri said, let the truth of your belovedness descend from your head to your heart. I hope you come away from this interview as inspired and as moved as I was. If you enjoyed today's podcast, we'd be so grateful if you take time to give it a stellar review or a thumbs-up, or even share it with your friends and family. As well, you'll find links in the show notes for our website and any content resources or books discussed in this episode. There's even a link to books to get you started in case you're new to the writings of Henri Nouwen. Thank you for listening. Until the next time.
