October 15 - Getting started
The DAY has arrived! Here we are embarking upon a community of believers reading through IN THE NAME OF JESUS. I’m excited in anticipation of the inputs, sharing and growth this will stimulate in me (selfishly) and I hope our communities.
In the weeks to come, I’d like to outline the discussion questions. There are 3 chapters, Nouwen’s reflections and application on the 3 temptations of Christ in the wilderness. I’d like to pose 3 questions for each chapter.
First is a question specifically about the text (obviously will vary chapter to chapter)
Second is the question “what thought from this chapter spoke to you and why?” Finally, “how has this chapter impacted or changed you and what is the practical application of the chapter in your life?”
So, with that format in mind, let me publish the outline for the next 2 months. We’re officially having this blog from October 15 through December 15. However, I’m throwing in a bonus week on December 17 with the question. After reading IN THE NAME OF JESUS, what will you give your loved ones, friends, community as a result of reading this book?
The schedule is listed under pages. From my teaching experiences, I’m addicted to having a course outline (sorry, we all bring baggage!) and I’ve posted it under pages with help from Maureen. In this section, we will have the question of the week and comments from people participating.
This week’s question is: Henri writes of “naked vs relevant self”. In your life – family, business, church, social – how do you think this statement effects your life, attitudes or behavior. When are you most drawn to “doing” something rather than being the beloved of God?
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October 24th, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Thank you Phillip, your comments brought tears to my eyes. I just realized once again, yesterday, that the place of darkness in our lives, the biggest, darkest, most painful place is just a tiny, pinhead of a place away from that warm dark secure place that is the center of God, perhaps it is the entryway.
Re the question for this week….if we act out of the need to be relevant rather than our love of God we have not offered to others the love of God, but simply our own need. What then, have we accomplished? Have we shared the Good News? (the love of God?) The only way then, to be relevant, is to love God. And the results from that, then, will be known only to God, perhaps to ourselves (as we experience loving, but maybe not, if our pain is great) and perhaps the others who have received the love of God (if they recognize it, also, whether or not we know or see that they have). All boils down then to our relationship with God - nothing else matters. I am comforted by my own thoughts!
October 23rd, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
Jack, Thanks for doing this! You’re relevant to us in serving our Lord by helping us through your experiences.
Carole, Hi and Welcome! It sounds like your very faithful and disciplined by God in your approach to your circumstance and environment
This morning, I remembered in a book I read last year, “ Lying Awake” by Mark Salzman. The story is about Sister John, a Carmelite in LA suffering from severe headaches and having to contemplate surgery or just leaving it in God’s hands.
She met with Father Aaron for his guidance. And what he told her was, “You may feel separated from Grace right now, but in reality you are probably closer now than ever before.”
“Because we’re all better off having doubts about the state of our souls than presuming ourselves to be Holy.” “You allowed yourself to think that loving God meant enjoying His company and having ecstasies.” It was all about you, wasn’t it?” But loving God is about trusting Him and putting yourself in His hands.”
‘The Problem is, you’re still looking out for number one.” “What comes before number one,Sister?” ”Zero”
“ If we subtract ourselves from the equation, we find that God is left.”
“He recommended an attitude, which he summed up to her by saying, God first, others second, and me last.” “And as long as you stick to that, you will make the right decision.” She had the surgery and is living for God today as far as I know.
As a Christian being truthful to God is hard and the truth of “Do you Love Me” is like, yes, I’ll love you Jesus, as long as I don’t have to suffer and if I do suffer, are you sure you love me? Listening and obeying are entirely two different things. Carole, my hat’s off to you because, you seem so at ease with your condition, and that’s relevant to me in the blessing you share with all of us. In my prayers.
October 23rd, 2007 @ 7:52 am
As the moderator, I am also a participant. But, as a moderator and teacher, my style is to refrain from making a comment at the start, letting people participate and contributing at the end. So in tying up the 1st week of discussion, I question myself on the temptatation to be relevant or be my naked self. I can think of lots of situations in which I want to “change stones into bread” to meet a perceived immediate need and have, unfortunately on many occasions tried very hard to do that - unsuccessfully.
But as I thought about it, I realize that just being the moderator of this blog is a temptation to try to be relevant: will I pose good questions for discussion? will I be able to build a successful community of discussion participants? will the discussion outline I posted challenge people to read through the book with a productive purpose in mind and a commitment to improve their lives and communities? Will people like my style of moderation? Will they ask me to moderator another book? And the list goes on and on. Obviously, I have to ‘do’ something as a moderator. I can’t simply say, “We’re discussing IN THE NAME OF JESUS - now talk among yourselves”.
I don’t think the question of relevance is necessarily just “doing”- an action - but an attitude. Am I “doing it for me” rather than the doing it as a servant and realizing that it is God who brings about results. Am I wanting to “change stones into bread” to satisfy a need I have or can I live above bread - in the spiritual life of living and breathing the Word of God.
Thanks again, to everyone for your comments and participation this 1st week.
October 23rd, 2007 @ 7:05 am
Hello, I didn’t introduce myself. I am Carole. I have a chronic illness, chronic fatigue syndrome, and am intolerant to the most basic of chemicals, not able to be near the fragrances and chemicals in people’s body care and laundry products as well as a slew of other things which make it virtually impossible for me to be in the presence of others and in most buildings because of the building products. Consequently I live alone in an isolated area away from pollution. I get depressed because I am not relevant, and I wonder if being relevant is not a natural human need. I can understand that it’s good and healing to be aware that we are beloved whether or not we “do” anything, but Christianity itself is about interdependence, about relationship. While I am a contemplative at heart and can appreciate the value of solitude (and love it), I wonder if some sense of relevancy in terms of connection with others isn’t necessary and healthy for our mental and spiritual well-being. I would appreciate any comments from others. Thank you!
Carole
October 22nd, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
Great to hear from all of you and know that we are a community now! I am sure there are more that we have not heard from that may be waiting for their books. Remember, that you’re here because Jesus has lead you here, just like the rest of us, so please speak.
Patty, you are very useful at home and at church–in raising those kids and supporting your husband in his fight. What ministers and witnesses you two are to those kids, your kids, the neighbor’s, your friends, and your church family. We need more leaders in church like yourselves who are being there for their loved ones in spite of circumstances. So many times the responsibility of caring for others is ignored while a quest for approval and the need to belong is more important than even family.
Jan, meditate the question on pg. 36 that Jesus ask Peter, “Do you Love me” which is not a metaphor to God’s unconditional love–but what does it really mean to you as well as all of us in light of Peter’s response. Also, you’re right, it isn’t a Coincidence that you are surrounded by ministers and that you are a minister and you are in a minister training blog right now. The gifts of what God’s love has done for us and how we respond, continues!
Judith, I like what Henri says about the body, “When we change, the whole body changes,” and if we are just filling a slot to be filing a spot for someone who may have guilted or manipulated us into serving in an area that we aren’t passionate about, how can we follow Jesus and not be critical of the church. Please don’t think that I think that I have arrived with answers or that I am a moderator wantabe, just glad to be sharing with others in prayer, meditation, and love for Jesus. Shalom!
October 22nd, 2007 @ 1:47 am
I just posted…and then realized I hadn’t really answered Jack’s question! Sorry. “When are you most drawn to ‘doing’ something rather than being the beloved of God?” When I’m feeling lonely.
October 22nd, 2007 @ 1:44 am
Well, of course, we have to “do” - our Scriptures are full of exhortations (make that even stronger: “commands!”). See especially the last part of each of the Pauline letters.
But the point is: why do we do what we do? The exhortations are meant to lead us to the life of gratitude: “I beseech you, BECAUSE of the mercies of God that you…etc. and etc….” )Romans 12:1)
And that is what has been my lifelong struggle (I am now 72): not to do in order to gain “favor with God and with humans” but to show thankfulness for what I already have because of who God is and what Christ has done.
But I am improving! See, one can teach an old dog new behaviors.
Or, as we say in my Calvinist circles: the work of sanctification is happening.
October 21st, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
Hello to all.
I have been reflecting on these pages. I am most drawn to “doing” something when I feel the need to talk, add to the conversation but am recognizing a voice that says “Be still. Listen (even to the silence.)” I agree it is important to show our vulnerability but ongoing stigma, makes that difficult for me around issues as I try to maintain mental wellness. The discipline of contemplative prayer really spoke to me and I realized it’s powerful presence very recently as I sought clarity regarding community issues is our region. I keep developing my prayer life- especially the contemplative nature. The chapter gave me reason to look at church leaders with their teaching as being opinion, be it moral but maybe not the ONLY answer. I am struggling with inner conflict regarding many opinions of church leaders and have quietly left an active role in the church. Maybe my time is coming to return for I will find like support which I need to share my voice….I am really looking forward to our online journey together.
Judith
October 21st, 2007 @ 8:41 am
I am amazed once again at God. It is no coincidence that I am reading this book at this time in my life. To quote from the intro “I have to trust that God is at work in me and that the way I am being moved to new inner and outer places is part of a larger movement of which I am only a very small part.”
As to being ‘naked vs. relevant” – this is a new concept to me. I was raised in a very emotionally abusive home. It was also a very strict religious home – all do’s and don’ts. I learned by example not to let anyone know who I was and not to have any emotions. Don’t let anyone know how you feel. Don’t even be honest with yourself. It wasn’t about being. The only way to be was to do. Then I married a man who continued this belief. It was all about doing. The more you did the better your chances of being important or liked or not rocking the boat or whatever.
Now at 49 years old, I am just beginning to explore who I really am and am trying desperately to believe that I am God’s beloved and that doesn’t depend on my doing anything. I have always been the minister’s daughter or the minister’s wife. For the last 5 years I have been just Jan. That has been a very difficult adjustment. Maybe it’s because I don’t feel relevant anymore. But I am slowly beginning to get comfortable with just Jan, even though I want so much to be doing. My therapist (who led me to Henri’s books) keeps reminding me it isn’t about doing, it’s about being. Just being is very hard for me!
Maybe it isn’t about being relevant for me. Maybe it’s about feeling worthy and being accepted. But then again, maybe that’s what being relevant is all about. I want to do as Henri said and “stand in this world with nothing to offer but (my) own vulnerable self.”
October 20th, 2007 @ 9:51 am
To me the difference between living my naked self and being relevant is not so great. My naked self is the real me who is disabled and can no loner “feel useful” in working within the Church. It is accepting who I am where I am today - limited, having very few visitors and being very very vulnerable, I cry easily, laugh easily and talk way too much. However, I am me the person that Jesus loves and accepts as I am and for the most part, I am at peace. I am any dear friends with whom it is okay to be vulnerable with simply because we know we each love each other and trust each other.
And with in all of that I have my family whom I love and treasure and support in many ways. I have a loving and caring husband of 39 years who is my care-giver and now fighting melanoma skin cancer - to what degree we do not yet know, I am now the care giver more in a moral support sense at this time, and emotional support sense with all of my children who their Dad to be okay and live for many years because “He is Dad.” My husband are also caregivers 5 days a week for our 18 mos. old grandson. So, being relevant to me is being
relevant to me is being who I am where I am and doing what I can in a loving supportive way, even if it means falling asleep in front of the TV every night and getting no packing or email done. That is life. Thank you for being patient with my tardiness.
October 20th, 2007 @ 6:42 am
Yes, Phillip, you are in the right place. In my efforts to be prepared and set up the discussion in the weeks prior to October 15 with personal intros, etc, when the kick-off day came I tripped over my shoe laces and mis-posted the schedule in the blog. With Maureen’s help it got moved to the portion called pages where previous blogs schedules have been posted. Hopefully, this petite faux pas won’t stiffle the blog and people will read and post. Thanks for your posts and inputs.
October 19th, 2007 @ 10:01 am
Welcome Leigh!
Leonora, check out our times for our submissions…24 hours to the minute a part…not a coincidence or a plan of mine. The Spirit is at work and we can now hope to be lifted up every twenty-four hours to the minute.
While having brake shoes put on my car, I thought I would follow up on my earlier post from Tuesday with-I do know that I am beloved by God and in His care. Claiming His love was not always something that I use to think about, however, thanks to His grace for the community that surrounds me-in letting me know His presence is near. It’s been a struggle over the past few years in giving with the idea of nothing in return which Henri writes about in several of his books.
My prayer life has made a difference in trusting to give freely while learning the difference in needs and wants. Making God the loving center of my life, being truthful and loving to Him as well as my family,
and ministering to youth is my vocation. God has made my gratitude possible in giving!
Jack, are we on the right page, where is everybody…this is a group discussion?
October 18th, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
Well, after reading the first chapter I must say that I’m struck by the idea of “The temptation: To be relevant.”
I recall needing to be “relevant” more in my twenties. It was a painful need. I’m 32 now and I feel more comfortable with being “naked.”
I think that being hit with depression a few years ago helped strip me of my need for relevance.
October 16th, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Leonora, thanks for being honest. It sounds as if you have gained some peace in the process.
It’s amazing how hard it is to not want to feel “relevant” in everything I do as a Christian, a husband, a parent, a son, a brother, a salesman, a youth leader, a friend, and a neighbor. At times, my kids let me know how ancient I am when we are together in the presence of their friends, at times, my wife makes me feel useless, my customers leave me hanging when things are slow, at times our youth at church don’t show, and at times, my friends are busy when I need them.
The “naked” truth for me is being faced with my loneliness and learning to trust that Jesus can be all those things that seem to be missing at times, while continuing to fully become myself in what God has created in me, like Ps. 139 and Mt. 4 promise. Claiming irrelevance in exchange for the light of Jesus. Pg35
In the “The Inner voice of Love,” Henri writes about staying on the “Road” and that it’s not a straight line. Also, about leaving the “Old Country” for the “New Country” which can be uncomfortable at first and most of all, being patient for
“The Not Yet!”
Phillip
October 15th, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Hi, I`m a Minister in England and had to retire 4 years ago due to fibromyalgia and high blood pressure. I was in a wheelchair for a year and unable to do very much. As I improved I immediately sort to “do” something within the church. For so long I had unwittingly fallen into the trap of being justified by my function. However the more I tried to “do” the iller I became until I realised that what God wanted was me to just rest and be his beloved. I am a gay minister who has been rejected by some within the church and found it hard at times to believe I am beloved.The “naked” truth has brought rejection and it was easier to hide behind the functionality of my role as minister. When that was taken from me I had to really face up to what it meant to just “be”. “Being” however is not just about sitting around and doing nothing. To rest in the arms of the Beloved and know that you are also beloved is being active for you have to move towards God and seek him. Reading this book changed my whole attitude and brought about healing.To be naked is to be vulnerable which Christ teaches by his example. Look forward to getting to know others in the book group.
Leonora