DQ 2.2 Opening up this discussion - what strikes you?
Hmm… I am so pleased that more than 20 people have identified themselves in the “Tell us about yourself” entry below. But the directed questions aren’t yet stimulating a big discussion. So I want to open it up broadly: In any of the first six chapters, what strikes you as important or interesting? Why? How? Let’s discuss!
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March 9th, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Thanks, Connie for your blog. Unfortunately, I am waiting for my copy of the book having just recently discovered and joined the group. Still, your words resonate with me. I, like lots of humans (I assume), find surrender difficult. I, too, confuse my negative thinking with God’s ways and miss out on His love and peace for me. You are courageous for examining your heart. Thank you for what you’ve shared.
March 8th, 2007 @ 3:29 pm
“Surrendering to God’s will is not an easy business” ..This was very, very hard for me too until I finally stopped, after several years of struggle, and took the time to search my heart and see, what do I “really” believe about God? In my heart of hearts I discovered that I had some core beliefs about God that weren’t true.
-I believed that God was a stingy God who would only give me just barely what I needed.
-I believed that God would make me do something I would be embarrassed to do in front of other people.
-I believed that God would put me in a stressful situation and then I would be left to solve it all by myself. And, if I didn’t solve it right the first time, God would put me in that similar situation again! ..you know, do it until you do it right, kinda thing.
By God’s gift of grace, I realized that these were qualities of how my parents treated me, not how God has dealt with me. In reality God never treated me in these ways. I went to the scriptures and searched for what God promised He would do for me… WOW…what I found set me free and I let these be the new foundation from which I could go to the Lord and say, “..Your will be done, not mine, because you are faithful, you are trustworthy, you are Love itself, you want to help me, shepherd me, protect me, direct me..etc”
Do I still struggle with surrender? Of course I do, I’m human. But now I can go back and point to who God really IS and tell my fears they have no truth in them. I will choose to believe God…
March 8th, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Diane,
You wrote:
“So for me, I guess one of the most meaningful parts of this book so far is found in Chapter 5 where Henri speaks so beautifully about the Eucharist being “that sacred mystery through which what we lived as a curse, we now live as a blessing.” No wonder I long for this celebration each week!”
I am the same as you, and I love to go early to have some time to read the Scriptures of the day ahead and always stop at what hits me and listen for that little voice that has a special message for me.
Thanks for sharing.
March 7th, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
When I read Julie’s question and your answer Ed, it made me think that sorrow can overcome my Joy when I am impaitiently expectant of the Lord to bless me in a certain way or by my effort. Like Stephen says ” the sorrows flow back in”.
I made a comment to some employees when we were at the funeral of the employee that took his life a couple of weeks ago that,if he just knew this, (all the people there in his life that cared), this might not have happened.
Surrendering to God’s will is not an easy business, but the joy of letting Him in inch by inch and knowing He is present helps me so much more in filling in those places in my heart where sorrows have been. Cheers to Christ who makes it possible for us to drink our cups. Thanks God, for helping Henri help us in discovering more about You through each other in this discussion.
March 7th, 2007 @ 8:36 am
Julie, sorry about the delay in responding. Henri suffered a lot because he never quite felt the intimacy that he rather desperately craved. People who lived with him would tell you that. So he felt a lot of loneliness and anguish — and sadness. He had close friends, and he also suffered from depression. One of Henri’s friend used to say, in reflecting on herself, “People just don’t love us the way we want them to,” and then we get sad or depressed or whatever. This woman was one of Henri’s friends, and perhaps she was speaking for Henri, too, in uttering that profound insight about what we expect from other people — sometimes, unrealistically.
March 6th, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
After many years of distancing myself from my religious roots, I am finding that I have come ‘full circle’ back to my Catholic traditions and I’m finding much comfort and peace there. I think this part of my journey began when I spent a weekend at a Benedictine monastery last April. I felt called to go there to commemorate the anniversary of my mother’s death so that I could have some time to pray, reflect, remember and mourn. And lately I’ve been longing to simply hear the gospel and celebrate the Eucharist. The non-denominational church that we have been attending does not have these elements. The sermons are really bible studies (dissections) and communion is celebrated just once a month. There is no ‘community’ chalice as Henri describes. I’ve been feeling empty and I think that God is speaking to me through this book–affirming for me what I already am thinking and feeling. He does this alot for me and I’m always grateful! I am learning to trust that small, still voice inside me but find that I still need those affirmations.
So for me, I guess one of the most meaningful parts of this book so far is found in Chapter 5 where Henri speaks so beautifully about the Eucharist being “that sacred mystery through which what we lived as a curse, we now live as a blessing.” No wonder I long for this celebration each week!
Be well everyone
Diane
March 5th, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
After completing the first six chapters, chapter two’s reflection on sorrow stood out as the most important for me. I have experienced my own moments of sorrow and despair throughout my life. At times my tendency has been to beg God to take my cup of sorrow away. And when that doesn’t seem to be enough, I try to “will” it away by avoiding the sorrow by letting myself be occupied and distracted by television, the computer or the radio. The reality is that when those things are turned off, the sorrow flows back in. Henri gave me a wonderful gift of Hope at the conclusion of that chapter when he pointed to Jesus’ moment of anguish in Luke 22:43. He says: “Then an angel appeared to him, coming from heaven to give him strength. I know now that I also need to look for those angels in my moments of sorrow, or be ready to be that angel for others in their moments of sorrow.
Reading this particular chapter, I realize that sorrow is and will be an unavoidable part of this life. But I face that with more patience and hope having spent some time thinking about it with Henri and God.
March 5th, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
“The hardest thing we do in life is live the life we are given” (can’t remember who the author is)
March 4th, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
In chapter 5 Henri states: “I am grateful for all that has happened to me and led me to this moment.” This is sometimes a challenge for me. I like to control my moments. I am, however, getting better at not only being thankful for all the blessings that are in my life but also more accepting of the hard parts = the parts I want to change. I have difficulty waiting - being patient. This Lent I am trying to live in a “humble and realistic acceptance of my particular everyday life.” (Thomas Merton)
March 3rd, 2007 @ 9:02 pm
“I would be interested to hear how the others in this group are creating community in their lives.”
“Someone said that it is easy for people to have a consumer mentality about Church.”
Hi, I am enjoying all the comments!
For me, church is hard - at best, difficult, and at worst, teeth grittingly unsatisfying. I go through phases in my tolerance of formal church services. I tell myself to have the attitude of no expectations, other than to serve and worship. Then I cycle into a consumer phase and begin to expect things from church such as intimacy with other believers, fellowship, encouragement, anything. I tend to be an introvert, so going to church is an effort, and many times, it seems to be an effort that is “unrewarded”. I know Christ came to serve, not to be served, and I should have the same attitude about church, but I am not there yet. I experience God more when I am alone in nature, alone in prayer, and alone in traffic. I guess I am supposed to learn when I am alone, and then put into practice what I have learned when I am with others.
What do you think heaven will be like? In the Garden, before sin, God would walk with man, fellowship with him. Will we be like the beings in Isaiah who worship God night and day, singing Holy, Holy, Holy? Will it be a balance of fellowship with God and with other created beings – human and otherwise (i.e. angels)?
I am really enjoying the book so far. A couple points in Chapter 1 stood out to me.
When Nouwen talks about our radical uniqueness and our resultant radical aloneness, it hit me. No-one has my life, my genes, my experiences, my joys and sorrows – my life experience is mine alone. Reading it the way Nouwen explained it made aloneness more understandable and more acceptable.
Another quote kept coming to mind days after I read it: “A life that is not reflected upon isn’t worth living.”
Nouwen is not implying that those who are unable to reflect are living lives that are not worthwhile, is he? Surely not, since he worked with disabled individuals. I do not presume to know what my disabled clients can or cannot reflect on, since many of them cannot communicate, but I do not believe that the inability to reflect makes a life less worthwhile. He must mean that those who are able to reflect, and do not, live lives that are not worth living. Without reflection or digestion of our experiences, how would those experiences nourish us? How would we grow, how would we see the joy in the sorrow, the good in the bad, the sunrise after a long night?
March 2nd, 2007 @ 8:32 pm
- “Our cup of sorrow/ cup of joy unites us with God and each other.”
(page 67, chap 5)
- “We…become overwhelmed by our own darkness. We easily lose sight of our joys and speak of our sorrows as the only reality there is..what causes us sadness can become the fertile ground for gladness.” (page 50, chap 3)
In the light of these truths that Henri believed so deeply, I am going to “dare to step beyond my fear, be vulnerable and lift my cup.. (page 75)” in a challenge for myself and to all of you. The challenge is: let’s pray and ask God to give each one of us an undeniable experience of “joy hidden in sorrow” that Henri is talking about in this book. I ‘m convinced that God wants us to know Him and that He wants to reveal to us, in a concrete way, what it means for sadness to become the fertile ground for gladness.. AND, we must agree to share, with all of us here in the online community, whatever God does.
Who’s up for the challenge..?
March 1st, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
One of Henri’s sorrows, always with him, was that “the God to whom I have prayed so much has not given me what I most desired.”
I would be interested, Ed, in your comments on this.
March 1st, 2007 @ 9:41 pm
“When we are crushed like grapes, we cannot think of the wine we will become.”
Do you think this means sorrow (crushed grapes) comes first, and then joy (wine) emerges? Or can they coexist together as Henri seems to say of the L’Arche community? Their lives are a sorrow but the way they live their lives can be a joy, particularly for those who care for them. Henri’s initial discomfort and unease with Adam when Henri first came to L’Arche changed into a remarkable devotion for him and he found great joy in their relationship.
March 1st, 2007 @ 8:28 am
When the discussion of this book was first announced, I became quite interested. As a Christian who is part of a denomination that places less emphasis on the Eucharist than others do, I feel I am missing something very important. Earlier this week, I dreamed I was walking through my church’s building, up and down narrow stairways, through hidden passages. I came to a large room where people were sharing a meal–food, drink, laughing, talking. The meal concluded with a service of communion. At that point I felt very disappointed because it was not Communion at all. It felt more like dessert. I knew it was not the Body and Blood of Christ. As I read chapters 3-6 this morning, I knew that God is definitely leading me–somewhere!
February 28th, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
I tend to see the idea of holding the cup in my hands as taking a good hard look at the fact that I am me and not my neighbor and looking at the life I have been given and the choices I have made of that life. As I hold the cup of my life I again have a choice to make: I can choose to accept this cup or turn away. I tend to live life to the full and love life so I have chosen to accept this life with as positive an attitude as I can.
As for creating community, I do it through the support groups I belong to, particularly the Ataxia ones and close people I have met as well as keeping in contact with long time friends. Email is a wonderful gift and friends are to be cherished.
February 28th, 2007 @ 2:54 pm
I tend to look at the cup of life as a mosaic per Henri’s suggestion. With others we make God visible in the world.(Page 64) I used to think my mission was to fix every person and problem I encountered. This view led to untold frustration. Through years of faith sharing in a small group setting, by God’s grace I can say,”I am grateful for all that has happened to me and led me to this moment.” (Page 80) I really agree with Henri when he stated that the important question is,”Do I have a circle of trustworthy friends where I feel safe enough to be intimately known and called to a greater maturity?” Someone said that it is easy for people to have a consumer mentality about Church. To come and sit in the pew, bask in the consoling news of God’s love and plead that he lend an attentive ear to our self-interest and private concerns. Churches then become places of customer satisfaction. Members develop a consumer mentality regarding weddings, baptisms, and funerals. Paying their dues, they simply expect the church to supply the needed religious and social services.
What is lacking is the authentic communion among those in the pews. They do not lift their cups, sharing life and celebrating in confession with community.
February 27th, 2007 @ 11:16 pm
One thing that stood out for me was Henri’s discussion, in chapter 5, on community - “As we lift up our cup in a fearless gesture, proclaiming that we will support each other in our common journey, we create community”.
I am fortunate to be part of a church where ‘community’ is very important. We frequently hear our pastor say “God meant us to do this journey TOGETHER, so if you think you can do it on your own - Get over it!!” This sense of community is fostered in small ‘Life Groups’. We meet, ostensibly to study, but there is always time to discuss and share personal stories. I am continually amazed at how so many people are willing to make themselves vulnerable, take the risk, to make ‘the fearless gesture’ and share their sorrows and joys. We are all enriched when someone ‘lifts the cup’ for all of us to see. I stayed out of the church and “did it on my own” for decades, and now I wonder how I could have missed the whole point of fellowship for so long.
I would be interested to hear how the others in this group are creating community in their lives. I have the feeling that Henri was talking about a lot more than just community with a circle of friends and that maybe we ought to be putting a whole lot of effort in creating community on a much larger scale.
February 27th, 2007 @ 10:38 am
The power,the uncrushable strength in vulnerability when we have the courage, guts and love to accept everything life brings us and transform ourselves through grace, trust and belief in God’s love into a blessing, a reflection of God, freely shared with others. Being an incarnation of the words, “Choose life, not death, choose a blessing not a curse…”
All of us in this community are reflections of this, all seeking to become who we are, to reach out to God and share the journey with others. The world will not encourage this, as Trevor’s story shows, but he was the most alive of all in that “Golden Room” and he brought life and blessing to the less “vulnerable” around him.
February 27th, 2007 @ 8:30 am
Well, due to an ice storm here in the Midwest, power outages, no Internet, and “surviving”, I’m just getting to the “Can You Drink the Cup” discussion and I’m in chapter one. I found the comparison of wine drinking and living to be interesting. I’m not a wine connoisseur but I do know that drinking wine can be a more than consumption experience. The bouquet, the color, the texture, how it swirls in the special kind of glass for red or white, the age, the heritage. And it reminded me of a quote from John Lennon. “Life is what happens when you’re making other plans”. So, I’ve started the meditation on “Can You Drink the Cup” with an apppreciation for the “cup” that God has provided in my life. To take time to enjoy what God has created in this “cup” and savor it - I’m usually interested in spending my time making other plans!