Discussion Q. 2-1: Sept. 25
Henri asks if we can really free ourselves of the burden of judging others (p. 61). I have to admit, with a touch of humor, touch of sadness, that I immediately think of people I judge daily. Set aside the cliche that we shouldn’t judge. Do we all have a flaw that makes us do it?á=Can you imagineá=what it would be like to be free of thisá=burden?á=I will answer first. Click on “Comments” below to participate.
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January 4th, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
We can think anything we want to think, and every thought releases chemicals, sometimes many chemicals throughout the body. Negative thoughts produce chemicals that assist tissues in breaking down, positive thoughts produce chemicals that help tissues to renew themselves. Some physicians refer to these as die or live chemicals. We cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought, as Peter Williams named his book. In order to think positively, one only needs to stop thinking negatively, and the Spirit within them will supply a positive thought.
Negative thoughts are produced as a result of perceptions from people or events around us. (from the outside in) Positive thoughts come from within. (inside out). I was 65 years old when I began to understand these thruths (inspired by Romans 12:2. Jesus said “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the rewnewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” This includes not judging others. I have spent the next 21 plus years directing a wellness ministry helping others to know, experience and understand the princiles of psychological functioning, and soon will be celebrating my 85th birthday.
October 11th, 2006 @ 4:18 pm
There is a saying that good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
Being judged is something that I both desire and fear. When the judgement is positive, it feels great, but when the judgement is negative, well that’s not so great. Being judged is also how people grow and develop in relationship to others. If I am not judged, then how will I know in what direction I am supposed to go or do? What I find very frustrating is when people believe they are trying to do me a favour by sparing my feelings and not telling me something important that I am not getting.
What has hurt me in the past is judgment delivered in the absence of mercy or compassion. When the judgement is intended to hurt or if my goal is to hurt someone in return then that is something different.
Maybe I am talking about two different things here?
October 10th, 2006 @ 7:35 pm
I say this phrase over and over in all kinds of situations, at the beginning of the day, at night when I go to bed, and when I am unable to sleep. I have also said it a lot during the last 14 months of my treatment for Breast Cancer and I find a lot of comfort in it. The phrase is, “Be with me O Lord.” Actually last Friday night as my husband and I were in teh Emergency Room with his 95 year old Mother I was teaching her to say it.
October 8th, 2006 @ 8:13 am
How exciting! The blog has become a laboratory in applied Christian living.
The last discussion issue dealt with judging. And, presto, the next week the “teacher” failed to show up for class with a question. Do we use the college “15 minutes/prof not here/we’re out of here” approach? Do we judge Ed for not meeting our needs for community discussion? Or do we- like Patty and Christa - express Christian community concern for someone else? which actually brings us to the topic of the week: conversion. And may I share my favorite line in this chapter? “This is the deepest meaning of history: a constant invitation callling us to turn our hearts to God and so discover the full meaning of our lives.”
Thanks Ed for giving us the opportunity to put into practice what we’re studying to learn in HERE AND NOW.
Jack
PS I don’t know how to do a survey on this blog, but I’d be curious to have a survey (1) I failed the quiz on judging when there wasn’t a question for the week or (2)I PASSED ! (now I just have to work on humility)
October 7th, 2006 @ 8:15 pm
Thanks Ed for replying. Been there. I know how things can get.
October 7th, 2006 @ 7:47 am
Hi Patty, thanks for writing and asking. Well, I am doing fine, thank you… just got distracted this week by work and family stuff.
October 6th, 2006 @ 11:14 pm
Hi Ed,
I’m concerned about you too—you’re in my prayers, and I hope all is right with you!
October 5th, 2006 @ 11:02 pm
Hi Ed, are you okay? It is unusual not to have a question from you and so I am a bit worried as to whether you might not be well. I pray all is well with you.
Love to you and all and a Happy Thanksgiving this weekend to all fellow Canadians.
October 4th, 2006 @ 10:35 am
I identify with Susan Vining and her family difficulty. I finally sought spiritual direction. I said, “But I have done nothing wrong.” The reply, “Neither did Jesus”. Later “I don’t have the solution but the problem has to be resolved.” It is being resolved not just once but again and again.
When I began to read this section I thought, ” I am not usually a judgmental person.” This is true, but Henri is using the word in a much broader context. Stay tuned!
October 4th, 2006 @ 9:06 am
Sue wrote “I am struggling with when are we judging and when are we disagreeing in principle with someone”
I think there is a difference between judging situations and judging people. Judgment of situations is based on knowledge; judgment of people is based on prejudice. Adam and Eve exercised poor judgment when tempted: they believed a lie and failed to act in obedience with God’s word and faith that that was the wisest course of action. Some people may run stop signs (poor judgment) whereas obeying traffic laws are good judgment. However, calling someone a name, or failing to love that person as Jesus does - personally, intentionally and sacrifically -is what we are called to do - is unfortunately judgmental. I’ve been distressed that in the USA the evangelical right and the evangelical left - who have widely different views of political agendas are often disparaging and derogatory of eachother. Henri’s quotes of Jesus helped me to see that perspective: dealing with issues from below, not from above and not allowing the issue to convert them from the natural humanistic, judgmental nature to the sacrifical, loving divine nature.
As an additional thought, I’ve apprecited Nouwen’s use of the term conversion. The evangelical community often considers conversion an event - Nouwen seems to say its a process. I think the evanglical community holds justification to be an event and sanctification a process. I think viewing converion as the process is helpful and more powerful for me.
Great blog!
October 2nd, 2006 @ 12:10 pm
Sue F.
I,too, judge myself, in my case as unworthy, far more often and more harshly than I do others. This has dominated much of my life,causing me much unneeded suffering.I struggle like you do. Nouwen’s thoughts as well as the candor of many of us in this group make me see that we only exist because of God’s love, that we are all broken in some way, but Christ was broken most of all. He came to be broken and to become who He was. Perhaps that is what we are all doing, and Henri Nouwen followed, all of us, are following Christ as best we can. Christa says it best, “heart broken in a good way…” We sure can’t defeat death, but maybe with prayer and God’s grace, we can change self defeat or self righteousness into Love. Don’t know if this is helpful(there I go again!!), but you helped me by your willingness, as did others, to be vulnerable.
October 1st, 2006 @ 12:48 am
This is one of the most fascinating parts of HERE AND NOW for me. Everyone else has already commented on it so well there seems little to add—except that it broke my heart open in a good way. I have always been very judgmental of others in my heart, and although I was aware of the psychological premise that you criticize in others what you fear in yourself, that never stopped me. My only excuse is that these were inner judgments, and thank goodness I never shared them with their “targets”!
What Henri Nouwen gave me was truly a sense of release from being judged—which had indeed underlined my need to judge others all these years. If I don’t judge them, then how can I be afraid of their judgments of me, as long as I am doing what is right in the eyes of God and my own best judgment?
I’d love to say that I can keep this frame of mind all the time, but unfortunately I can’t—-as a Christian work in progress, I pray about this everyday. But I feel that by Nouwen’s gentle explanation I have become more comfortable with other people and myself—-and maybe most importantly with God. And thanks to all of you whose comments helped me gather my own thoughts together better than I could have done alone…..
September 30th, 2006 @ 10:51 pm
I am struggling with when are we judging and when are we disagreeing in principle with someone. For example, in politics/government, if I strongly disagree with the direction our country has taken, and think someone is doing a poor job, am I judging that person? Yes, I suppose I am, but if so, then is judging not a necessity if one is to be involved in our political system?
I was taught at a very early age not to “judge” others, because one never knows what someone else’s life or culture or heritage is like. We lived in far northern Minnesota very close to an Indian reservation. My mother was often criticized because she would refuse to judge the Indians who would come to sell fish, and they were always welcome in our home. Many called her foolish. I thought it was simply the right way to treat people. So I do pretty well at not judging other people.
However, I do not do well at not judging myself. I have been told so many times in the past 3 years to remove my judgment of self, to take out the judgment of self and look at my actions or words again. I am doing much better at it, but I still need the constant reminding. Does anyone else struggle more with judging self than judging others?
Sue
September 30th, 2006 @ 9:28 am
Here goes. It is OK to judge, that’s just the way we are wired. Now, we ought not to. We ought to weed it from our way of life. Not easy to do. Will never completely happen this side of you know where. We can only try to get better (more mature) at it. Our attention to not judging will ebb and flow throughout our lives - some days good, some not so good. Don’t beat ourselves up over our goofy behavoir. We’re all sheep who wonder to and fro (”we get so easily entangled”) and that is why we have that nagging “constant invitation” and that is what the Shepard is all about. I’m gald He left the 99 to come after me!! Next chapter…….
September 30th, 2006 @ 6:19 am
Hey Diane, let me give you a little insight about Henri. Although he wrote that so beautifully, his friends would tell you that he, also, had his way of becoming annoyed with people, sometimes for petty reasons!
My reason for saying that is not to criticize Henri, but to let you know that for Henri, for me, and I suspect for many others, there is just a gap between where we would like to be with our feelings and where we actually are. Standing in that space is not a condemnation, but a humble opportunity for growth, in my view.
People tell me that I am too critical of myself. Perhaps. But I just see it too clearly sometimes — that I need to be less sarcastic, for example, but the sarcasm just comes out. Ouch.
Insights? you ask. I would say just be aware of what you’re feeling, and realizing you have a choice not to feel annoyed. Difficult? Perhaps. But even if you choose one time today not to feel annoyed, that is a small step forward, eh? (Thanks to you Canadians for giving us that wonderful word, “eh”!)
September 29th, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
Hello everyone!
I am new to this online reading group and very much enjoying your comments, and of course, Henri’s book. It is very comforting to know that I am not alone with these thoughts of judging others.
September 29th, 2006 @ 12:17 pm
Interesting to me that the title of this chapter is “conversion”. I think it’s appropriate because not judging others does indeed require a conversion of the mind and heart, especially for me. I can’t say that I have ever experienced what Henri has: “an immense love for everyone I met, heard about, or read about” (pg. 79).
Mostly people just annoy me! That’s the honest and ugly truth. When they are not annoying me they are baffling me–I just don’t “get” most people and the choices they make about how to live their lives. This chapter was a real challenge and an awakening for me.
Painful to see something like this in yourself–I am judgemental, it’s very clear to me. How to turn this around and have a conversion? I honestly don’t know.
The comment that judging stems from fear that sean made resonated with me. I truly am afraid of the path that this world seems to be heading down—those of us on a spiritual path feel it more deeply, I think. But, I can’t excuse the judgemental condition of my heart.
Looking for ideas/suggestions/thoughts from the rest of the group. I’m troubled.
Thanks
Diane
September 29th, 2006 @ 7:03 am
I linked the previous chapter on joy with judgment: you cannot choose to have joy and judgment at the same time. I cannot choose to have joy if I am busy judging the person ahead of me in the “10 Limit check-out lane” when I’ve counted 11 items on the counter and am judging them because of their “sin” of lying about the number of items they are buying and their greater sin: they are inconveniencing me. Judgment is a burden because it robs me of joy. But, on the other hand, I wonder how many times God gives us the “11 item person in the 10 limit line” to give us the opportunity to choose joy, trust, the greater over the lesser- to give us the opportunity of “conversion” from who we are to who God is cheering us on to become - someone who shows the world an image of Jesus.
Thanks everyone for you contributions - a sharing community like this blog is something I’m sure that Henri would have loved.
September 28th, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
Maybe not a flaw as much as an inevitable consequence of living. As many have said, the ability not to judge flows from God’s grace, we cannot free ourselves without God’s help. Years ago, a priest shocked and healed me when I sought forgiveness for the hate and hurt I felt toward family members. They judged me and I judged them in return. A death in the family brought this to a boiling point. When I explained this to a priest, he replied that he could not give me absolution, for I had not committed a sin. He said such feelings were natural and normal, but it was what I did with them that would create sin or be an occasion to grow spiritually. He suggested I try to look with God’s eyes at the situation and then follow my conscience. I thought about God’s “judgment”, Love and Mercy, and then thought about my own reaction. This changed my response; the wrongs and hurts were valid, but my reaction was not. So I stepped over the hurt and hate, trying to be more than I was, trying to be more than a reaction.
It made me at peace with myself and my family, although nothing outwardly was different. The burden was lighter. It is a process I need to repeat over and over, with more success at times than others. I hope I will not lose the will to seek God’s eyes in judging others or myself. It is a journey of a lifetime for me.
September 28th, 2006 @ 5:59 am
I think judging others also has a lot to do with fear. When I cannot reconcile to the feelings within myself and most often evoked by people significant to me - I fall into the trap of judging them - putting them in boxes so that I may rationalize their behaviour. I think it is the most freeing thing not to be able to judge anybody but see them as an image extension or the ‘beloved” in Christ - they way that Henri puts it. Thanks
September 27th, 2006 @ 8:19 pm
Welcome, Philip. Ed, I smiled broadly at your question when I read it Monday. I had asked myself the very same thing the night before while praying about my reading. Having read the above comments, it looks as if we are all plagued by a lifelong struggle in this regard. At least I know I am. And like so many others, it is always the speck in the other persons’ eye that blinds the very same log in mine. I do tend to judge harshest that which I do not like in myself.
For me, to be free of judging others would mean I am in Heaven.
September 27th, 2006 @ 11:18 am
Yes negativity hurts no one but ourselves, and we are all such hopeless victims of it. Which is why our Creator who knows us so well insists on the first commandment. More than a jealous God He is a compassionate and protective God.
Judging, fear, worry, society …..all come under the label of idolatry and our business is delighting in God and being grateful each day, by counting our every blessing be it family, health, comforts, freedoms etc. When we are occupied this way, there is more occasion to live with smiles leading to health, rather than frowns leading to stress and illness. The trick is to remind ourselves all the time to do the right thing !!
September 27th, 2006 @ 7:06 am
It would be awesome! I must admit, I can barely imagine what it would be like to be free of judging…I also must admit that I don’t like to be judged, and would love to be free of that. Henry compares it as a light burden, that of being judged, to the heavy burden of judging. Once again I am led to looking at the log in my own eye……
I can only pray for the gift of not judging, for healing so that I lessen my tendency to judge. I don’t think that I am capable of doing it myself, though I can, whenever I find myself judging someone, stop, and pray to Jesus to help me.
What a gift it would be to be free of this! What freedom I would have!
September 26th, 2006 @ 5:28 pm
I once heard a psychologist say that the things we hate most about others are the things we hate most about ourselves. There is definitely a connection between the way we perceive others and the way we perceive ourselves. So many times in my own life I have observed something about another person and passed quick and unfair judgment on them, only to later realize that in reality, I was really lashing out because of my own insecurities. It seems to me that what Henri is getting at is crucial: to free ourselves from the burden of judging others really means to free ourselves from the burdens of insecurity and fear which are constantly threatening to paralyze us. When we are able to acknowledge our weaknesses and see ourselves as accepted, loved and redeemed, we can be free to accept and love others, even with all their faults and failings.
September 26th, 2006 @ 2:24 pm
Seems like I already judged you, Ed, when I saw the time you posted. You are an “early bird.” I hate when others label people but I’m guilty of it myself. Some of our judgements are reality-based. If you’re on a committee and it’s true knowledge that there’s a liar sitting next to you, you need to keep that judgement in mind to filter out what that persons says. Some things may be true, some things may be fabricated.
I believe only with the help of the Holy Spirit can I look with compassion at a person who annoys me.
In some way, they are crosses which I can carry in my walk with Christ. Jesus asks us to see people, events as signs that call for spiritual interpretation.(P.72)
This is truly a gift given by the Holy Spirit.
September 26th, 2006 @ 12:40 pm
It’s hard not to want to judge ourselves as well as others, especially when we act silly! I think about what all God has to put up with in my behavior and it leaves a wide open space for others.
The very thing that gets on my nerves about others is usaully a reflection on the very thing in me that needs attention.
Before we poison our neighbors, first lets consider God’s shaping hand on our character.
pg.83 “Love of God”…”Love of neighbor”… they cannot be seperated.
Communion,
Phillip
September 26th, 2006 @ 11:40 am
Hi,
I am late joining you. Liking the book and your comments.
This is a test to see if I am getting through.
Phillip
September 26th, 2006 @ 6:50 am
I catch myself judging others in way too many situations. At work, at home, when I’m out, when I’m driving. My wife calls that arrogance, and for a long time I resisted her language there. It hurt. Surely I’m not that arrogant. But I have slowly come to see that instead of just letting life come to me, I get irritated because I think others are barricading the work I am trying to do, and so they must be wrong. Not only wrong, but worse. And then I give them adjectives. I am not saying these things to beat myself up, but just to let you know what swirls inside. On the outside, I rarely let others see or hear that negativity inside of myself. But I am very, very slowly beginning to see that the energy I put into such negativity blocks my own path to what Henri calls conversation. That’s why I say “ouch”! I am only hurting myself.